STEAM & the Future of Education 2

00:00:00 everyone this is our last round table of the day but it is by no means the least exciting because steam education encapsulate so much of what we're talking about and we started talking about steam this morning I know that feels like a long time ago it does to me this morning we talked about polymath we talked about transdisciplinary groups as the kind of new version of a Leonardo what are we trying to do when we teach people steam what are the ways that steam gets realized either in the

00:00:32 nonprofit sector or in education in K through 12 versus college what are these people going to grow up to be like so these are the questions that we start talking about this morning we have a very good group of people here who have very vastly different experience from teaching for a couple of years to teaching for 45 years so so there's a lot of wisdom to be found here I will let Zach as usual introduce the panel and then we'll get started

00:01:03 Harvey cipher harvey is founder and director of the art of science learning a OSL he has taught innovation at GES croton ville global leadership development seminar he is also a classically trained musician and has provided his leadership in works with an numerous award-winning musical productions Joe bargain Eddie Jill is a professor at Hunter College and CUNY

00:01:33 Graduate Center she has received an NSF Career Award and presidential early career award for scientists she is also a standing member on the NIH tumor cell biology study section she also is a choreographer who has developed a class choreographing genomics which focuses on teaching genome information flow through postmodern dance Paul Frye Paul is the William Lampson

00:02:03 professor of English and has taught at Yale since 1971 his primary areas of specialization are British Romanticism the history of literary criticism contemporary literary theory and literature in relation to the visual arts he is also an award-winning author Cynthia Panucci Cynthia is the founder of asci or ASCII and is responsible for creating much of the pioneering arts

00:02:34 science programming she has a background in fine arts and as a professional artist worked with printmaking textiles mixed-media and photography Daniel Ruskin is co-founder and executive director of Jen's base he's also the founder of the bio design challenge daniel is a fellow at data in society additionally he has done journalistic work reporting on the intersection of biotechnology culture and business for

00:03:07 Bloomberg Businessweek Scientific American and other publications Allan levy Allen is a new york-based artist and writer in a past president of the college art association with Natasha Olmec she co-directs the new york-based laser which is Leonardo art and science evening rendezvous as I mentioned earlier she was special IDs VA advisor on the arts and sciences

00:03:40 at the Institute for doctoral studies in the visual arts and has been in numerous group and solo exhibitions have been featured featured her art here and abroad including at the National Academy of Sciences the New York Academy of Sciences and the like with that let's begin the round table all right Thank You Zach and so my question on my mind right now is for Paul and you can get us

00:04:11 started by maybe framing us a little bit having been in education for 45 years I love to hear about how you think things have changed your experience good or bad through changes and either but what the institutions want or ideas about what the students want yes thanks Julia that's that's a good sequence of questioning because it puts me in the role of reporter which i think is probably the safest role to have me and the today the effort to create

00:04:45 interactions between literary and science study is quite lively in the academy it certainly was not right when I began teaching today I suppose the most visible it's been mentioned already form of collaboration is ecological studies which is a lively field in the literary world or as Lahaie as it was mentioned earlier as one important figure in that field there are also

00:05:16 quite serious efforts at the neurological understanding of aesthetics some years back there was a book of essays called beauty and the brain which was interestingly experimental it showed for example that dogs and monkeys were as excited about the golden section as we are and that perhaps for reasons having to do with shelter theory some of

00:05:48 you may know Jay Appleton's Brooke shelter theory and in any case there have been efforts to understand the aesthetic which always seems somehow or another to be completely in agreement with cosmetics and and and how and why the scientific approach to aesthetics gives you that result I don't think I'm qualified to say but it's interesting and there are now also interesting neurological efforts to understand what was earlier referred to as the

00:06:19 importance of telling stories not not so much the anthropological question why do we tell stories but the neurological question why do the stories take the shape that they do a person called Lisa zoom shine is well-known in this field and there are a number of other people working in that field as well there are there have been lots of efforts to correlate the relationship between literary hermeneutics the art and science of

00:06:50 interpretation something that interests me especially because I really simply think of myself as a teacher of interpretation and if I'm either/or transdisciplinary it's plainly that one needs to interpret and about any undertaking one can think of but there are there are there have been efforts by IDI Hirsch and others to make a correlation between hermeneutics and the scientific method in the argument of the umbrella of arguing that there's a kind of unified field theory of

00:07:22 interpretation this is met with widespread scepticism and I'd be interested to hear the views of many of you on a subject of that sort I certainly share the skepticism myself and I think that it's partly the skepticism we heard earlier about the scientific method itself that that drives that in large degree and but in any case this is another field in which there's quite lively interest within literary study I think I should stop

00:07:54 there for the moment and and come back to two other aspects of the issue III would only add that when somebody said recently that well you know we're all the same here there's not much diversity in this group I feel quite diverse as our children say I suck at science and I can't pretend otherwise but I nevertheless do at the abstract level

00:08:26 take a lively interest in these things it's really just the hands-on but I can't do I could never see anything in a microscope I just you know like I would look and I would see nothing and I would call the lab assistant over and the lab assistants say look they're don't you see those things crawling around no I don't see them so this was a kind of visual inhibition on my part which I've never overcome I suppose another remote qualification I have to be here is that I do paint I was an art major in college

00:08:56 and I seriously considered a career in painting but it's only been intermittent I've done some exhibiting but not much so in effect I think I'm in the category of that person who dissected those frogs and you know and so and I also have a very different attitude toward the kind of creativity that goes into my own painting and the kind of creativity that I admire in my literary studies and III it would be very hard for me to talk about a bridge really between those two

00:09:27 activities so yeah it's interesting when we're talking about integrating disciplines but then we have to recognize and we have been doing this you know that they're different they feel different and and that's that's not a bad thing either so Jill I'd love to hear a bit from you about your experience in your class choreographing genomics because I think that also really set the stage for for this team yeah I'd love to share it I just want to say thank you to you Julia and thank you to the helix Center and

00:09:58 thank you to sigh art because it's really been an amazing day and yesterday helping me to think about how I integrate art and science and all the discussions that have been going on here so in my class choreographing genomics which is what I'd like to focus on and this idea of this collaboration but collaboration within each human being themselves I've come to feel today that really I need to describe myself as a scientist and an artist and that

00:10:31 is what I'm working to do with my students in the classroom is to make sure that every student is describing themselves as a scientist and an artist and that they are not at odds with each other and I think that that's why we're all here because we recognize that they're not at odds with each other and that the process of discovery in science is similar to the process of discovery in the arts and that allowing young

00:11:03 adults you know 19-year olds who are at that process of discovery to discover in that way in the classroom and get joy out of discovery through art for science and science understanding is an important thing so what I do in the class is to have the students have two texts one which is about art and postmodern dance called Turks of corn sneakers which describes to them a lot of what happened at Black Mountain

00:11:34 College and the the process where many postmodern dance choreographers were learning or thinking about moving out of the realm of classical dance training in order to give the process of what is art that process of art what is experiencing art and allowing each student to recognize that their experience will help them to experience the visual learning of science because all true

00:12:06 scientists are very visual thinkers kinesthetic thinkers didactic thinkers they're having all these different thinking processes brought to the table so to teach students when in this forum or we're talking about education I think that's really important to allow students to learn through it's called vark which is visual learning auditory learning reading and writing and then kinesthetic process and so that the students are bringing all of those processes to the learning table so

00:12:36 they're learning about these different postmodern choreographers so they can learn about Yvonne Raine and Merce Cunningham and they know they can run and they can jump and they're all dancers and all these different choreographers so they're learning all these things through the lens and voice of Sally Bane's who are at this amazing book and then they're learning about DNA through somebody who I don't particularly care for but James Watson's book where they get to learn even that that lens of somebody who speaks in such

00:13:08 terrible words about people and you see his lens and you see his racism and his sexism through his lens but you do also get the brilliance of the DNA molecule and information flow and so that's the text they have for that so they can they can see how you can have both together and we're talking about all of these things and then they're bringing them to the table to choreograph genome information flow DNA to RNA to protein

00:13:39 and earlier today it was like what is the new icon or iconic symbol and it is DNA and we talk about DNA as the heart of things people use it now in language and the language of science and biology is often couched in language of choreography and movement in motion and synergism and all these words we use in science that are also used in choreography so the students are using all of this bringing it to the table choreographing and then picking genes on different chromosomes that associate

00:14:10 with cancer and exploring those in movement and they all have to be the choreographer they all use all the students in the class as their dancers and they all are being audience so they're learning the the active art art formation art audience science conceptual and I think that's a great way to teach and I think it's a great way to learn and I was lucky enough to have it and I try to give that to others can I ask you a question you're saying that you're teaching for example do

00:14:43 Thrall are they yield its protein which was the mantra for many years certainly when I was growing up but no longer is correct so do you also update these cell there is so this class in the class that I teach so this is biology 175 the one that I'm telling you about I teach many different levels I also teach PhD students but in this class right now I have people who it's their first semester in college and so you know I

00:15:15 make talks a little bit about micro rna's and all these other complex things but these students actually just having them understand 5 prime to 3 prime and using their bodies to understand directionality and antiparallel and this old to central dogma it's enough kind of you have to decide what you can add on when when they walked into the class so you also have to deal with assessment in education so when they walked into the class the first piece is to do

00:15:45 assessment and to assess do they know the name of any gene do they know how many chromosomes would you have do they know how many nucleotides there are do they know how many miles this would stretch for and none of them knew any of this ok so you begin with the assessment and then have to take it from there ok now they know how many chromosomes they know many genes they know what those products do they know enzymatically where activities are happening in the nucleus and so yes a little but this is a class to try to

00:16:16 help them determine what your major going to be and some of them are going to they want to become they're going to theater and they want to do puppetry and others want to become chemistry majors and some want to become doctors and so it's it's to begin that vocabulary so the person who goes into puppetry who's the one who actually made our flyer who's so excited to share the performance it's taught in a black box theater there are no desks there are no chairs you know that they're moving but he's the most excited to share what

00:16:49 they've learned in their final exam which is performance based so we can't do everything beyond where we were with central dogma at the beginning but I think it's the beginning of how do you set the stage as opposed to when students come in and they take general biology they think they're going to med school and maybe they get a C and all of their dreams are our squash they're just like what do I do and this is and they've sat in this classroom with 500 students in the back really on their phone half the time as opposed to in this classroom where their

00:17:22 phone can't come out because they're moving and if they don't get 5 prime to 3 Prime they haven't joined hands with the right person and I'm asking where are you why'd you go there so we can't do everything so it's so what it sounds like for your class is that you're describing a dance class in the service of teaching science basic DNA size am I in misunderstanding you are misunderstanding this is not a dance class this is a science class the class

00:17:55 is biology 175 and it's utilizing all different kinds of learning possibilities to teach people in many different ways so they have to come to class having read two different chapters they have to already understand I'm not gonna stand there and tell them all the things they should have read in the text so it's almost of what we call a flipped classroom so they have to have come in prepared to be ready to go where they're

00:18:26 supposed to go and it's very evident if they don't understand the concepts where I can help them I can help them to feel it in their body I can help them to articulate it with their voice because postmodern dance and performance art you're articulating so they're speaking they're moving there are times I'll do a PowerPoint to show them the when we're dealing with five prime to three prime and really getting them to understand the molecule and where the sugar is so they're also doing chemistry everything is there they

00:18:58 see the chemistry of the molecule they have to understand where the sugar is the nucleotide is so it's this is a beginning but I think it's a great beginning because much of our vocabulary in science now is based on the genomes so it sets them up the next semester they might be going to general biology or they're in chemistry it sets them up but it is not dance or not they don't have to point their toe but they do have to run or maybe if they can't run they have to sit and speak they whatever is

00:19:29 gonna work I'm just working for what will work by loading a sari I would agree that this is an essential part of steam education to bring these different things together but it also reminds me in 2015 I opened up the New York Times and I read a fascinating article on trying to decipher the Herculaneum scrolls and it couldn't be done this was

00:19:59 2015 or some of it could be done but not all of it a little bit later in the paper there was another article about the connectome and some from Columbia his effort to decipher the neuron connections the neuronal connections in the brain and when you read the article a little bit further which realized is that they shared a common solution but

00:20:33 didn't really reason realize it which had to do with tomographic imaging then they could unfurl the scrolls using tomography without having to actually invasively destroy them and that was true also for the neurons so it would have been interesting if there had been somebody there representing Steves and what are you guys collaborate and see

00:21:04 what happens so I want to switch a little bit to steam outside of the classroom because there is plenty of that to go around Harvey do you want to start us off because you have a lot to say in this sure so just a little bit of background I started off as a musician I learned to read music before English I did a lot of science as a kid working in renal immunology in college I hung out with a rougher crowd so I did theater and

00:21:34 theater was my kind of core professional activity for the first half of my career I also kept kept a toehold in music and when I became director of the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra I had this opportunity to work with this amazing conductor less Orchestra and I became really fascinated with how the orchestra did that how how they were able to perform that way and that actually led me into some broader questions not only about what could you

00:22:06 learn about collaboration from a conductor less Orchestra but more broadly what can we learn from artistic skills processes experiences in what realms and what domains and how we could apply and it was really growing out of that that and and the things that I learned in doing all of that work led me to believe that there were these as we looked at the application of these things in business and research in academia that the world was filled with these these really intractable and

00:22:38 wicked problems that were effectively failures of the imagination and failures of collaboration that the fault lines of those failures tended to be we had the disciplines war warrant meeting and that there might be ways to work with the arts and with arts based learning to help bridge those gaps and begin to build new things in the space in between to use the the phrase that's been used a lot here today so that led me to start the art of science learning and with the

00:23:08 artists and something we've really done three kind of big things over the last decade the first is we've developed and we because there are 40 artists involved with this and there are artists that are visual artists and sculptors and painters poets filmmakers choreographers improv theatre artists blue types of theatre artists musicians so we work with lots and lots of different ways that you can experience and explore the arts we turn that all into a curriculum a curriculum that was

00:23:42 really designed pretty much for anybody so not for really little kids we have other things that we do with really little kids but really probably out laughter we have a lessons and adults from all kinds of different backgrounds and interests and approaches and it focuses on how you can use the arts to help you learn and help you becoming the innovator and innovating in many many different domains so we kind of built that body of work and those best practices that this is we were able to

00:24:13 find them and put them together in a curriculum the second thing is we we realize of course that we've designed a curriculum from which no institutions existed that could ever be taught so we essentially spent several years creating a large work around as a model and that took the form of incubators for innovation which we set up in a number of cities around the country in partnership with museums and other kinds of informal learning centers we brought

00:24:44 together hundreds of people artists and scientists and business leaders and researchers of high school students college students and so forth and walking around specific stem challenges exploring them through the arts and through our space learning and then innovative and actually developing new ideas into products processes services curricula to address civic challenges like water resources and our canoe Tricia and Transportation Alternatives and then the third thing that we did is

00:25:20 we kind of focused a lot on impact and now because we had a strong sense that for all the power that we've all experienced at this intersection arts science and learning we have relatively little proof that we impacted and so that it was important to try to address that so we've kind of spent this this this these years working outside the formal education system but I think

00:25:50 increasingly coming up with things that are impacting and creating opportunities I feel like you have some some good input here about outside of the classroom or going from the classroom out into the real world so let me tell you about my background before I jump into it so I'm neither I'm sorry your mics not on can can you hear me now better yes all right I'll just keep my finger here and we'll make me look very intelligent so my background is as a

00:26:26 journalist I neither have a degree in the sciences nor particularly in the arts I fell into it because as a journalist I found that access to the science and specifically biotech was incredibly hard once you left the university setting meaning I was reporting on all these wonderful scientists and all the wonderful work they were doing and the second that I wanted to actually try any of the work that they did themselves it became immediately clear that it would take me

00:26:56 another decade to get back into the lab and actually try anything in my own and that was not acceptable to me personally and so lo and behold we created something called gen space which is the first community biology lab where anyone regardless of background regardless of you know what stage of life they're in and what you know what they're doing with their time can come into our space and do at least their first genetic transformation and then move on from there to more sophisticated things like

00:27:30 CRISPR or we're about to offer grow your own lamp using mycelium so I you know historically for for me and I've been doing this for the last ten years I haven't been sort of addressing these issues within the institution it was only later that we created the bio design challenge and that's largely because artists and designers were finding their way to us being new york-based that should be a surprise but

00:28:00 it was and what they were looking to do was use our space as a platform for them to explore the technology and as someone as a science journalist who wasn't you know didn't know much about the practice it became very clear that they were contributing something very very important to the dialogue that was going in on our lab and I actually think contributing something very important to a larger dialogue about what this technology what this science actually

00:28:31 means for us as a society so they were asking well what can I do with this stuff and how will it affect the future of us as a Civic Society us as individuals us as a collective and these questions were really really important to me so one of the things that I haven't heard today was anything about social justice environmental justice and it has surprised me and I think largely this collaboration these are the things that will unfurl uncover sorry going

00:29:04 back to the intelligent will unfurl and uncover some of the challenges in social and environmental justice to make a long story story short we created a program called the bio design challenge where we took classrooms of artists and designers we partnered them with biologists who would act as kind of guides and mentors offering up at office hours and we asked them to imagine the future what is the future of biotechnology look like out in the world how would you use some of the

00:29:36 papers that you've read some of the new advances in research how would that actually turn out in our society how would that turn out in the products that we use and the students then were able to either innovate and and show us some amazing visions but also critique and that became very important and so for the last three years we've had these students on stage at MoMA presenting their ideas and as much as they are a celebration of the learning of the

00:30:07 science through this novel means it's also a critique of the of what happens when you take science and technology and you cross it with capitalism and I think that's actually where where the the power of this begins for me personally I want to go back to the classroom but but first well my background is as a fine artist you know we often have to have a

00:30:38 day job to support our art habits so for 10 years as an artist in New York before I started ASCII I worked with kids and community settings so I did a quilt project with pregnant teenage girls with the theme of your hopes and fears of being a pregnant teenager I did environmental murals with kids at a religious after school project where you

00:31:09 know it was about they got down on the floor and they put their bodies and traced around their bodies and then those paper patterns went into the big 13 foot by 8 foot mural but through working with kids in children's museum settings and designing art workshops and and also interactive sculpture where kids could could accessorize with pattern texture and form so

00:31:41 interactivity became important to me and going into science museums and seeing how kids were like pretty much programmed to be pressing buttons and I didn't see that they were getting very much out of that in terms of learning so I just personally became involved in ocean conservation from my first snorkeling experience in 98 and when I learned you know that they before we could go down in the water they said you can't touch

00:32:13 the reef because there's a protective film and it will kill the reef gradually anyway I started to get I just read all I could on the Internet I started to realize that when you we I saw this phantasmagorical setting with all these fishes in and then and then we got out of the boat and he said well you know 2/3 of the ocean reefs are dead or endangered and I thought I was like outraged like I didn't know that and I

00:32:43 couldn't figure out well why in our society i watch National Geographic and like all of you do and I couldn't figure out you know why why I didn't really know but so I started studying about well so what is the significance of artificial reefs why should we care well now my passion is ecology because I've learned that the phytoplankton floating around in the global ocean is responsible for 80 percent of the oxygen that we breathe and all the freshwater

00:33:14 that grows our plants and that we drink and so my my my pursuit has kind of gone along this path so I took my interest to NOAA in Washington DC and I had this project that would was about the ocean health of ocean and there was a photography project and a fashion project and all these different components and they said well where's your where's your youth education project and I hadn't done that so I went

00:33:44 back to the drawing boards and I a year later I came up with this project about collapsing ocean fisheries and there so I reached out to the oceanography community and and got people from the Southeast Asian countries and the Philippines and other countries to put their put children together on a blog

00:34:17 and to be talking about for instance in the Philippines children often can't go to school anymore because they have to take all day fishing to catch minnows sized fish because the industry size a fishing industry from the Baltic countries that is totally subsidized by their governments comes in to the Philippines and you know raids all of the endemic fish that they can get their

00:34:48 hands on so anyway well so friends were telling me Cynthia don't do a project about collapsing fisheries with kids that are eight nine and ten what do they care about fish so you know I don't really normally listen to people so I kind of went on with this project but something amazing that happened the project was with fourth graders at a school in Chinatown because the principal was a very advanced adventuresome principal

00:35:20 and she took it on so we so we had these children blogging to these other countries and they were they were either acting or speaking for the fish like don't throw dynamite on my reef because you know they're gonna kill me and you're gonna destroy the whole reef as well which is what they do in Malaysia so and then so the kids were to speak to

00:35:51 give voice to the fish and also to give voice to the children in the other countries that were the people their parents were having to move away from the shoreline because there were no more fish so they had to go and do agricultural things well anyway it's it's it started me on this whole journey and when it was over we had this blog conversation that was supported by this Philippine ocean management fishery

00:36:22 management organization and it was online and it wasn't live but the questions were posed so in the end I hired a choreographer and I made these fish cutouts as just objects Dart that the students would the choreographer just designed this movement some were ocean anchovies some where sea bass so there was a movement and then the music stopped and the kids would go to the

00:36:53 microphone one at a time and they would do this monologues that came out of the blog that happened so there was a performance that was sponsored by the United Nations Environment Program for the World Environment Day in 2007 and at the end of this wonderful little performance that the kids did they ran up to me and they said well we have to write a letter to the president doesn't he know what's going on this was George Bush's

00:37:24 administration but it's I had never talked to them anything eclis I showed them a picture of this young children and the Philippines on stilts fishing and I told them that they you know these kids could not go to school anymore well I hadn't realizes that I was working with in Chinatown you know that that culture is very interested in education so much so that that's the most

00:37:55 important thing to them and these kids were coming up with these concerns like the children in the Philippines need to be able to go to school you know anyway it was a totally in terms of outcomes of projects I had kind of creative framework but I had no idea that these children would have been had a reaction but it was I empathy I think for their fellow fellows

00:38:26 in a different part of the country kind of we've touched upon this before but when you give people the opportunity to have a kind of cross-disciplinary experience whether they know they're having it or not there's this kind of thrill which which is that you know relaid at the end and because students are wide-eyed that's that's why they're wonderful they're open to learning so it's trying to point out we have an independent artist nonprofit academia nonprofit academia nonprofit academia / nonprofit how do we enact steam across

00:38:57 these platforms what's easy for you and what's hard for you first of all I think that there are many more opportunities for our science insights and maybe in terms of teaching what's important is to not only draw connections but think how you could impart it I spoke with a woman of who is an educator Suzanne I believe

00:39:32 it's it's where she said hogar Hogarth and what is worth that that's her name and she told us something very interesting many of you probably realized that both Golgi and kaha received a Nobel Prize together but what I had not realized until I spoke with her was that they both used the same staining method and qahal came up with

00:40:04 neuron theory whereas Gogol came up with theory that was I think it was called reticular theory it was discarded and considered incorrect and what she looked at with her class were the differences even using the same methodology which allowed one to see something differently from the other this had to do with looking through the microscope adjusting it using extra

00:40:39 resources after applying stains evidently qahal went and used various kinds of pigments and coloring on it to bring out certain characteristics then this is just one this is the tip of the iceberg another really prevalent thing is it wasn't just Galileo Kalitta through telescope I mean this happened in at the same year with a man from

00:41:10 England named Tintin but what allowed Galileo to see this was his fine arts education and his relationship with an aunt of an inch Italy so I think that in terms of teaching having symposium these extra things need to be brought out where you have creativity on the part of two people and yet what is able to make

00:41:42 even further observations this is something all of you here can use in your teaching in your communication with others okay so these questions well a the future of Education as part of our topic and I suppose I should say that another thing I do is co-chair something called the started as the Yale New Haven Teachers Institute and now it's a national program called Yale national

00:42:15 initiative for public school teachers K through 12 in underrepresented schools in collaboration with University faculty who teach content based seminars for those public schoolteachers and what's of interest perhaps in our context is the question how to approach the trans and interdisciplinary in this setting because of course as other people have said speaking of school

00:42:47 teaching one is beset by codes and standards and above all by test scores and which is still for us as for others who have spoken the only available form of evaluation that convinces funders so there's a lot that one's up against here but a lot of us have nevertheless experinece seminars and a lot of us have experimented with with tiptoeing around

00:43:19 the interdisciplinary they write long curriculum units as opposed to lesson plans so that it's partly an exercise in brushing off their prose the so I for example teach seminars sometimes concerning poems on pictures and introduce the idea that actually the visual arts and verbal arts have rival agendas and in some ways envy each other

00:43:50 and that there's a kind of a dramatic force field that one encounters in a neck frosted form as they're called and I try to interest teachers who are English teachers or in some cases art teachers and the possibility of thinking within the humanities of a variety of disciplines and it's in that way that we feel we can approach the problem even for the K through 12 teachers whose

00:44:22 lives are so scripted and regimented as as we all know it's a it's a small step as we say on the moon but it is something at least we can do to enliven the prospect of teaching for public school teachers in the future if I could just hold this the floor for another minute to talk about something I do myself as an undergraduate graduate teacher teach a seminar quite often

00:44:53 called defenses of poetry which once again has to do with the rivalry among disciplines you know Plato in the tenth book of the Republic unceremoniously banished the poets from his ideal Republic and based his whole argument in favor of a just life under the philosopher King on the idea that poets really have no idea what they're talking about they live in a state of delusion three times removed from reality and

00:45:24 much as we like them we simply can't afford to have them in our ideal Republic and so we begin with a text like this and then we go on attempting to find ways to rehabilitate poetry and and bring it back into even a republic that has ambitions something like those of Plato to me the high-water mark in this effort is a wonderful text by Shelley the Romantic poet Shelley called

00:45:55 a defense of poetry and Shelley argues in the defense of poetry that science in its imaginative moment just is poetry in other words he commandeered the entire field of thought for poetry understood as the capacity to metaphor eyes he then argues that metaphor degenerates into equation or law whatever it might be in the field and always needs the resuscitation of rethinking so that he

00:46:28 believed for example that the Americans revised their Constitution every five years I mean who you know he liked the Americans naturally they must revise their Constitution every five years otherwise to live under law would be intolerable because law and other words perpetually needs to be rethought asthma so this is a good instance of a unified field approach to the disciplines which is which which I celebrate in this in this setting is quasi facetiously

00:47:01 because we all know the problems with an argument of this kind but it's nevertheless it seems to me in some ways an exhilarating one matthew arnold then gives the whole show away he says science is true but it's also hateful darwin has told us that we are no longer the cynosure of the universe we're descended from some horrible arboreal creature with prehensile paws you know and and and and how can we

00:47:31 possibly live with this well says Arnold what we need is poetry which tells us pleasing lives right I mean I'm boiling the argument down but as you can see everything Shelley won Arnold gave away in other words this is in a nutshell the drama that I try to communicate and of course it was kind and of course it tells you nothing about science and in fact in that setting precious a little about poetry but it does it does oblige you to rethink the

00:48:03 questions of the relation among the disciplines and and we do spend a lot of time in this setting thinking about that sorry to kept you so long so we're actually translate steam I actually lose heated them but I and I fought it further maybe we can all agree on that product for a long time but I've actually decided you know it's out there let's just go with it so so the word yeah so if if we're actually

00:48:38 gonna translate it from the not for profit from the informal learning into the formal system we're gonna have to tackle this question of how we measure impact and I think that if we stick to the traditional measures were kind of missing the point and playing out of losing playing field but define what well yes I was just going there so in order in order to measure at first we have to define what we mean by it and what it is that we're trying to impact

00:49:08 so we have all of these wonderful 21st century learning standards and we all think that collaboration is really important we don't really measure that very much we don't integrate that very much into how we think about these things and yet we now have actual data that proves that relatively small amounts of arts based learning leads directly to better collaboration among both adolescents and

00:49:41 adults scientists we think that creative thinking is really important we don't always know how we want to define that but we have good data that we've developed it shows that arts based learning actually impacts specific creative thinking skills ranging from the ability to generate ideas to the ability to form heuristics we think that innovation is very important but we

00:50:12 don't actually focus on that and yet there are two we have powerful compelling data now and more being developed all the time that shows the direct impact of arts based learning on the innovation outcomes of teams so I think that there's a real opportunity there to work across the not-for-profit world the k-12 world and also to work

00:50:45 across art in science because after all if we're actually going to change things and move the needle on how we think about this we need compelling narratives and compelling data we actually have what it takes to do both of those but without the application of that to these questions we're going to be spinning on the margins of a system which is designed to drive other outcomes altogether which are actually as we all know not the outcomes that we want to be driving as a society can can can we step

00:51:16 a little bit back because I think we all have different perspectives here what is the positive benefit of steam from your perspective I mean you're talking about all the ways in which it makes us better collaborators more creative more innovative that would be goals for you but I think all of us have different understandings of what that might what those goals might be yeah absolutely and and I only spoke about a few of them for me and ones that I happen to have some data but I think that they're a pretty

00:51:48 broad and rich set of things that can be accomplished that's reus team exactly you mentioned things before but there weren't really examples that one could all right yeah so I'm grappling for what will be a helpful type of example when you say an example an example of an example of what

00:52:19 the collaboration led to okay could not have happened without it yeah so in our project we brought together 28 teams of people these people were artists there were scientists there were students there were researchers from very very different kinds of backgrounds they work together for a year and in these on these projects which they selected themselves in broad challenged areas they developed things

00:52:51 that I cannot imagine have coming out of any other process things that were really strikingly original social innovations we had a we had a team that that started out trying to reinvent the technology behind how people pay for transportation but ended up with a novel social innovation and sharing economy innovation that has led today to a

00:53:22 thriving nonprofit which has people going to work for nonprofits banking their hours converting them into bus passes being sponsored and sending about 500 rather 5,000 immigrants to their first job interviews so I mean these things are coming out in lots of different domains they would not have happened if they hadn't been artists and scientists and students and business leaders people from coming from very different perspectives and using the arts as a common language and a set of

00:53:53 tools to help them collaborate and generate ideas and develop them I'd like to talk about what what it means to me and what I think how it can impact learning and so this morning there was this this term steamy and how steamy in a steamy has a much more kind of rich thought for for young people like the kids saying wow that's so steamy so when

00:54:24 when you think about how it can affect you it's hot you know that's like it's lit so when you think about how arts transpires and it hits everybody and and just you can use it as a way to empower all the learners just for an example from from my perspective when I was in college even when I started to know I was a scientist I would not tell people

00:54:54 I would always say I was a dancer and even when I was going for my PhD I would go to parties and I would say I was a dancer so and so now I now then I got to a place where it always there was a scientist but now both the scientist and a dancer and the point is that I think steam this idea of putting it all together allows you to reach audiences you ask this question about social justice and and dealing with steam as a mechanism to

00:55:25 affect social justice to be able to diversify the people that you can speak to about science to allow science to be accessible to the broader public because the broader public often when you begin to speak about science becomes glassy-eyed we talked about elitism so in an elite audience of this type here yes science seems so big and wonderful but in your normal walk a day world you want to do a party and you talk about

00:55:56 being a scientist this is my world you know my family I don't speak about my work with my family I can speak about dance I can see so you need to be able to have these conversations and to have young people it's not just students these students are the future scientists and to have them think something is steamy and them to be able to make the new discoveries because it is young minds that make the new discoveries it is young minds that shift paradigms it

00:56:27 is young minds who are able to think differently just as you're talking about staining something differently seeing something differently being able to open their minds and not be lost in the paradigms we have now but be able to have paradigm shifts because they see things differently and I think that steamie will allow us to affect those kind of paradigm shifts and it's important to be able for people to not seize things in this didactic way that we approach science and that is the beauty of this putting together apart in

00:56:58 science that takes us past this didactic approach I love to you also take it from there to point out that we've had some new programs developing and there's some examples here one that particularly impressed me was Adam was mentioned earlier was David Edwards program in in Boston I think he ended it now 100k for high school students and I was part of

00:57:31 the group of people who were brainstorming about neuroscience and art there was the youth in these high school students after hearing thirty different ideas selected what excited them and what motivated them to develop a project that were given a technologist to work with they were given an artist to work

00:58:02 with and these are people who when I first met them were for the most part fairly inarticulate at the end of six months they were so articulate they were excited they could develop a budget that could support what they wanted to do I thought it was really quite a transformation and it's not anywhere on that scale but these lasers that have

00:58:33 developed they're all over now they're in other countries Patricia Olynyk who you heard before and I set this up late in 2008 when it wasn't officially called a laser and we've had people every five or six weeks except for during the summer months since then three and four people present their ideas and the beauty of it is not just

00:59:03 that it's largely unscripted which is true here also which is really quite wonderful but then at the end of it we put these people together to talk and see what these emerge from sometimes quite disparate approaches and that's really where the excitement for me is is seeing how a theme and understanding can emerge that had not been there before and I would say this is true of everyone

00:59:36 here and talking about their programs both in this group and also in the earlier groups so I think that's what we're trying to get at I think it's kind of ironic that in ours our culture here in this country you have to sneak up on citizens when you talk about science I mean you can't just be blatant about it I can't with my family there and then you know science is heavily funded of

01:00:07 course scientists wouldn't say so but art is totally almost not funded so here we have two groups you know the underappreciated and the underfunded but you know somehow we got from our whatever I love for art and science so how do we put these together in ways that really relate to the the PERT the student the young person so so that

01:00:38 they're turned on and they ask questions to me that's the most important thing is how do you turn on the brain how do you provoke the questioning mind because the answers are all out there just look on your phone pretty much so that's what's so exciting and in the impacts that we've seen the data that we've developed in that we've studied it it has this tremendous capacity to spark engagement curiosity enthusiasm a sense of optimism about learning sense of agency and that you can apply things

01:01:10 that you learn in your own life and and and and change the world around you impact it it we're dealing with educational systems that by and large are not set up or designed to do those things so something that you said that you do the seminars with teachers so maybe we should reach out and do short-term or summer session for

01:01:42 teachers teaching the teachers so because then they can if they follow the teachers need the space to do it in so some yeah those are doing that already I'm blanking on the school it might be Fisk but we we published about them in August and yeah they host sessions about how to teach in a more steam like mayor for teachers and where they host it they host it in the school's gallery because I don't know if there's room there and it's nice to be in a gallery so we're

01:02:12 gonna open it up for questions now right after it asks a question if I understand it correctly if you have somebody who is going to go into a lab and study the microtubules inside a neuron the advantage of that person having gone

01:02:43 through steam education during his whole education period is that that person would hopefully look at the problem in a different way more enriched way than if somebody hadn't gone through education is that the claim that is one of them yes and they'll think out of the box creatively because they don't have these preconceived ideas of what the

01:03:16 outcome should be I think well partly what we're describing is the societal need for people who are both fluent in both and I'm gonna add design to this as well because it's an important one yes so design as well as the technology what or the science whatever it is for several reasons one reason is simply that when scientists do their work they

01:03:48 are particularly focused on what is going on and the mechanisms under the microscope or whatever it is when the designer takes of that finding or works with that finding they're thinking about the people who are going to use that in their daily lives and so they're acting almost as a translator of of a science that's being discovered into the product that will eventually be that whatever it is we use and I think that person needs

01:04:18 to be able to understand both what the scientist is talking about understand the technology itself and then be able to understand people's desires and so there needs to be that translational role in society I don't know about the internals of Apple but I will say that you know what we're trying to do is we're trying to create a generation of bio designers which are people who are fluent in the language of design and also at the same time can speak to a scientist and

01:04:49 understand what they're saying and the hope just like now we have in computing groups of designers who are working on things that basically designing with with computation there will be a time in the near future probably already happening now we just don't identify it as such people who are designing with biotechnology with biology you know when we think about GMOs you know you know Monsanto crops and things like that these are bio designs these are designs

01:05:20 to be used in the context of human civilization human human endeavor human experiments well I hope they're not doing human experiment well fair enough anyway my point is that if you have a generation of designers who are fluent in that language but also into in the social understand the social context hopefully will avoid some of the environmental maybe humanitarian catastrophes that we've had in the past

01:05:52 hello I'm Len Steinbach I teach in the museum graduate program at Johns Hopkins I will determine urology has come up with popped up a few times yesterday and today and as one of you you could share what you know about neurological plasticity and thinking in ways of thinking that benefit scientists and artists and whether these have these projects have any lasting effect to your knowledge I want to apply it and I want

01:06:43 to apply it in both directions because for a moment before it seemed like you're talking about their science artists impacting science or science impacting artists one way or the other and not as mutually as I hope the conversation would go especially when you talk about certain outcomes but so but I am interested in knowing what we might know about how an intensive artistic orientation new to a scientist a new scientific orientation to an

01:07:15 artist changes in a lasting manner the way they see the world was sculpting people's brains and I think it's a very compelling explanation of work by people

01:07:51 like Gerald Valen yes and I know there's a lot of work done about art in the brain monitoring we're kind of meant many have but I'm interested in what science does with the art oriented brain and what art does for the science oriented brain or my being too specific and please feel free to tell me because I'm not well I can only comment a little bit on one side of that and that is that I don't if you know Billy James caterwauls work at all but but he he did

01:08:26 a meta study that looked at I think it was 14 Errol imaging studies over a long period of time and found a lot of feared neural substrates between artistic process experience and empathy actually to come back to theirs that work is incomplete but there's certainly some strong suggestions and things there can I just say that one

01:08:56 influence of art on science is Ned Seeman who's at NYU he is known as the grandfather of DNA nanotechnology he came up with the idea because he loves art and collects art and it was MC Escher's work and tiling that gave him the idea for his whole field of DNA nanotechnology so I mean there I'm I

01:09:27 think Leonardo is starting to collect these exemplars and I think we could really benefit our field by having a kampala compilation exam I've been hugely impressed by the number of stunning examples of collaborative success I've been hearing about in the last day and a half and still perhaps a little skeptical about how they translate into the classroom it's the the what we're what we're talking about

01:10:00 is the mutual insemination of great scientists and great artists or at least very good scientists and very good artists and the in and in the future of Education this has to give us an optimistic sense that more of this kind of thing is possible perhaps not quite at such an advanced level but but let's still I mean the way the instances of these sorts of success that you all have

01:10:32 given is extremely impressive to an outsider I just want to say that I'm glad you brought that up because I just want to note before we move on to the next question steam officially started in 2008 all of us in this room found it before then on our own whatever we called it it's it's only been in nine years you know for a movement that's that's pretty short right so we are now educating the people that in 10 years will be getting those

01:11:03 jobs that will start dictating different things that will happen in institution so so it's a bit of a long study in terms of what's working right but but I think there already a lot of good stories hi my name is Jessica Biel's I'm a artist from Washington DC I work primarily with themes related to science and math but I'm particularly interested in one aspect of this particular

01:11:34 discussion today I'm related to education because I was I was once in my for the last four years have been invited to bring an interactive art project I have - an annual summer institute for teachers at the Washington International School where they're focusing on teaching for global learning so not so much about science or art specifically but they brought my project and which is a language based interactive project but rocks about identity and community building just as a diversion mostly for the teachers to

01:12:07 have something to do in between sessions and explore whatever was sparked by my project and of course I had underhanded idea about what I was going to do when they turned into myself at MySpace and I would have conversations with these teachers about what my work was and what they thought it was and if they were told it was an art project in the gallery and they were welcome to look at it they go oh this is interesting can I touch it can I do anything with it and say of course it's interactive do whatever you want with it and then tell me what you think about what you're

01:12:38 doing and they would go oh wow this is really interesting it's bringing out memories and I'm interacting and what's this thing there's sort of a seesaw over here what am I supposed to do with that and I'd say way out way out the rocks way out the words on both sides tell me what you think see see what happens I was encouraging teachers to explore using a scientific method on a very basic level language in another level interact with each other and there doesn't really feel like an art project anymore and I'd say well it isn't they just decided to call it an art project because it's a diversion

01:13:09 it's actually there's a lot of science here I'm when I use this with kids I'm teaching them about levers it's a way to edge injustice to physics without telling them that that's what it is because they might be afraid of it so one of the things that is sparked in me with all these conversations so that we keep on talking about artists and scientists and how we have to bring them together as though they're intrinsically separate things and steam itself is just an expression of the fact that we're all doing all these things all the time and and our institutions perhaps have

01:13:39 separated us unnecessarily and we're just trying to figure out how to get back to where we all are which is what we're all doing all these things all the time we just have to stop being afraid to do them at the same time amen to that um that was actually gonna be exactly what I wanted to say was I think it was was good to comment on that because I mean to please invite you to comment on

01:14:10 that because we we are saying art and science and when you say that you bring a lot with you like you bring a lot of generalities scientists do this and artists do this and we think like this and they think like that and you know in science communication we it's you know we're trying to there are a lot of great conversations about this like we're trying to give you something and and tell it and like you you know you must take this in and what this whole thing

01:14:43 is about is really opening your mind to allowing whatever insights are are being sparked by either seeing science and art and things like that and the the fact that you know there's like all this fractal consequence that you never really know what the impact of what you show someone or tell someone or give someone will be and so I I was just hoping you

01:15:18 could comment on exactly what she was saying you know in this as we're trying to build a future of Education calling it science and calling it art to start with as opposed to just saying we're learning about inquiry and what all can you you know you as an individual now that you have made insights and connections what can you bring to this um something that has been in my did anyone else Odyssey of the mind Odyssey of the mind

01:15:50 something that was so that is exactly what I've been thinking about all day but you know because that's a kind of an area where in terms of what you want out of a collaboration maybe it's not an end goal or product maybe it's just to let people figure out what they're good at and and people are going to be good at different things so you don't have to take an artist and make them a scientist you don't take a scientist to make them an artist you just have to allow them to really figure out what they now see the

01:16:24 world differently so that was more of a comment that I was hoping that the question of it would be if there was any feedback on that I'd give one and that is that so we talked about the institutions and the challenge of the institution's suppose there's also us and the challenges that we pose and by that I mean all of us because all of us are expert at something we have our domain expertise and I don't think we want to get rid of domain expertise I think domain expertise is really

01:16:55 valuable and if you think about really high performing teams and lots of aspects of life one of the things that's really characteristic of really effective collaboration is that you can leverage the main expertise people can go back and forth between being an expert in their particular specialty their domain and have this generalist knowledge of what we're trying accomplished together and and to sort of fluidly integrate those things so our institutions are definitely not set up

01:17:27 to do that and maybe war not is set up to do that as we'd like to be and maybe that's a very important thing for us to think about and develop how do we actually nurture that without sacrificing that expertise but also recognizing that we all have a tendency sometimes to use that expertise as a kind of leverage that makes it harder to collaborate I think we should think of more about you know infants are and really really young children how do they explore the world I mean they put it in

01:17:58 their mouth they smell it they feel it they taste it they hear it all of these senses that Howard Gardner talks about Harvard education so this this sort of tactile world is even what artificial intelligence is grappling with now how do we put that into computers and into the computer mind so artists have a lot to offer because these are the tools that we learn in art school and so perhaps we have to go back and unlearn

01:18:31 thing things when I was a student I wanted to draw like Matisse and my professor said first you have to draw like Leonardo before you can draw like Matisse so we can't reduce until we know what the reality is we have to train our vision and observation in the Eastern society really know is about observing we don't observe enough we don't slow down enough especially in our digital

01:19:01 world but anyway I think playfulness going back to childhood would be a really really good starting point for education for art and science and attention is relevant to it was brought up earlier there I mean there are two forms there's depth of attention and there's the attention span that gets so much attention and we need to think about the best ways to capture both forms I just want to make a comment about the the not separating the artists and the

01:19:34 scientists and when people are going to go for the PhD are there they're applying for things there's always this piece where they ask you to rate the person's creativity mmm you always have to rate the person's creativity but in our education system that we're not always you know we're separating these things and I think we need to not separate we need to be teaching in a way where maybe we're not always going this art or calling it science because the

01:20:06 the person who goes on to become a formal scientist needs to have those moments of creative exploration to set up their hypothesis and that hypothesis comes from this intrinsic hypothesis place that's this creative place that's the artistic space that's what's so imagination yeah if so so there there really isn't the dichotomy the way it's been set up because this actively

01:20:37 working scientists are very artistic as was brought up earlier one of the questions and talking about Einstein and his violin scientists even if they don't think they're artistic or somewhere if they're practicing being artistic when they're sitting there they get that free time that freedom that room of their own should I say for for females but yeah we shouldn't separate I'm an artist I would

01:21:07 say a hacker of Technology of a citizen hackers so to speak I've worked on a lot of collaborations I'm on art art science art technology teams and one thing in the discussion that I'm hearing I'm you know it's interesting to be talking about this into learning about other people's perspectives about how does one teach people to collaborate how do you best open them up like take this oh you

01:21:40 know flower and just completely open it well from my experience the most interesting teams and most interesting productions that we've created have come from listening to them listening to other their I there's no one way to teach this isn't a linear discourse it's taking for example a hyperactive kid

01:22:11 taking putting building a community of collaboration from all different kinds of challenges different cultures different interests a kid who's totally interested in music or another who's interested in the sounds of silence then another another kid who's like moving so fast they can feel that they can they can feel the algorithms between their arms you know like mode moving them there there's so many things that you can

01:22:42 learn from the people that you're putting together and how and new and seeing how they create together one thing that I found really interesting for myself and on some teams or different concepts like reading different articles depending upon the age groups of course that we're talking about reading different articles about scientific discovery and thinking really

01:23:13 in terms of synchronicity not in terms of disparate movement you know like oh there's the past and there's the future and then there's this line I'm outliers or are incredibly interesting and identify so much of what's going on in the world and I have found that when there are groups that are that are put together and people are reading different material and they're not

01:23:44 embarrassed or made to feel uncomfortable to come up with their interpretations which may be very much out of the box but they may be very brilliant after isn't Einstein would have been one of your people how you could have collected that data he didn't do that hit maleva his wife did much better University they needed and he collaborated with her on projects so it's you know in the theory of relativity they work together so you I just think it's important to listen to

01:24:16 the groups that you put together and from that there are discussions of things I believe some really interesting collaborations will come about for the teachers to then be able to learn from - because it's all about learning from each other I'd like to add to that one of the things that we found is that if you create the incentive structure for these collaborations you get a lot of you get

01:24:50 a better result so in the early days of gen space when artists and designers started to show up and we had other folks who were with science backgrounds there was a real tension between these two these groups the scientist would feel that the artist is you would be using them for their own artistic purposes and they'd be feeling taking advantage of on the reverse side when the artist was over when that when the scientist was more at quote-unquote in

01:25:20 charge the artist would feel as though they are being used to do PR for the scientist and what I found over the last couple of years was that scientists have found that the the publicity that comes from that collaboration ends up being quite useful for their careers and what I've seen is that they there's been a proliferation similar clearly for the artist it is helped them as well everyone seems to benefit at least in

01:25:52 some cases and so the more of that we see that the more we'll see these collaborations I think the single most important thing we can do actually is to create spaces and environments that foster collaboration maybe offer some some resources some models some freedom to experience residences to some extent

01:26:22 I think III haven't seen great evidence that the culture within formal education is deeply changing to the support that although I do see examples of it happening all over the new Institute relatively new in California part of the Claremont system barred the changes they've made to introduce science and to what was previously an arts curriculum and again I don't think we can get too

01:26:55 much praise to the role that Leonardo has played in fostering a lot of solutely and the k-12 is a tough yeah I'm gonna try to keep this brief first off okay thank you for doing this I'm as many of you probably are I don't think I ever had a choice in where I was gonna fall in a career path my undergrad

01:27:27 experiences medical illustration my grad experiences museum exhibition design in-between I've done a little bit of everything else and when you are an interdisciplinary inand when you don't feel like you fit anywhere life can get a little scary yeah so to hear that you've been working on these projects these collaborations these foundations you're doing this outreach it's really heartwarming but you need to keep doing it because a lot of people want to do

01:28:02 this I've been teaching high schoolers for quite a few years now in fine arts and trying to rope in as much chemistry into my dye lessons as I can so you keep keep just doing it but um remember that doing this being able to go out on a limb and chase your dream and exist in an interstitial space where you may not have a safety net is a privilege and if we want to bring more

01:28:34 people into this not just a marriage of Arts and Sciences but every single identity that we can possibly rope in because every identity brings its own perspective to any given question and who knows which one's going to be useful which one's going to crack the code and which one's going to blow everything out of the water so how do you think you want to grow and maintain a support

01:29:05 network not just for kids to bring them up and not just for students to feed them while they're in school but for the adults they'll become thank you for your comment I think I wanted to let you know a nice sentiment which is good for everyone to know so in the in August of last year this year rather siren magazine published a steam issue and this was the first collection of a bunch of steam articles many people in this room contributed to it and there were a

01:29:36 lot of different viewpoints a lot different approaches etc but it was just kind of a general roundup and the one thing that everyone agreed on is that we did steam because we thought it was the right thing to do and we we didn't have to explain why I was just like yeah of course it's the right thing to do so don't worry people keep doing it hello again everyone I am really interested in the future of steam education as it applies and you know k12

01:30:08 but also bringing it into the university and something I've been thinking about is how we're disseminating what we've learned from these projects that that were working on so how are you guys putting out some of the results that you talked about you know we have data or your course sounds absolutely amazing you know how would how would someone else you know is there is there a model that someone can would be able

01:30:39 to take or access because when I I hear about the things I'm usually in a room with the person and on the big wide world of the of the internet it's it's harder to find and it's not so much covered in a lot of the scholarly articles yet so how are you guys working to to get that information out in the air oh yeah there's some Roger what is the name of a woman who is putting together the collection of steam

01:31:11 approaches you know I'm talking about [Music] can you give him that microphone because this is good information - her name is Catherine Evans we're working on the idea of a cloud curriculum project so anybody who's been developing a syllabus shares it with other people I call it kind of like a gated Commons you can only get in by contributing your

01:31:41 attempts and it's it's got an acronym C dash curriculum development in art science and humanities so if you google it you'll find a website we're about to announce it and invite people to do curriculum sharing online because one of the problems is as you were just saying it's so difficult to find the other people who may be taught for a couple years and have some best practices or new practices there's a couple of other

01:32:14 major places to look one one is informal science org and that's a tremendous resource we certainly publish all of our major data on there and so too many other people and you can find a vast amount on there the innovation collaborative and if you can google them and they've developed a lot of best practices and have materials around that and with a lot more coming certainly our website also has even more detailed data

01:32:44 the information on our work and also a fair amount of other things that we're able to find out in post that we think are of interest to do that work and to people who are interested in in in this domain and so art of science learning work lots you can find here just add to that bio design challenge org so we've been working with I think we've we've hit the hundred mark hundred plus University educators who have been working at the intersection of biology

01:33:15 Art and Design I have their sample I have samples of their curricula online as well as a library of resources of reading materials from all from Foucault all the way to you know complicated articles on science articles on CRISPR which which is a fantastic resource for anyone who's developing their own curriculum speaking of Foucault anyone interested in data mining from my point of view

01:33:46 might be interested in following the work of the Stanford literary lab which has convincingly found new ways to think about making sense of vast quantities of literary data so I think we need we need something that's more centralized so I doct so I'm an academic and you know I do my work my own little cloud so I think what we're hearing here it's bringing all these people together and

01:34:17 each person saying oh I have this I have this and then you sit and you'll Google and you'll search for it but in bringing us all together here the beauty of today is that we're all in this room and it sounds to me like we need some place where we can all be together in a virtual room that's where all of these pieces that people are you know saying now are available and it's easy to define these things I would love to share but as we've talked about earlier in the day when we write our grants and

01:34:49 we're talking about our broader impacts you know I've applied to try to get money to be able to share my approach to be able to teach teachers what I've done I've taught it four times I'll share my my syllabus but it's hard to get money for being able to to share these things and teach people what you think you've learned and I don't know how we're going to begin to do that and this is where we say we have academia we have you know not-for-profit academia nonprofit I think the not-for-profits have to try to

01:35:20 bring in us who are in academia because we're always going - not-for-profits to try to get money to be able to do our things and disseminate but unless we get that money and we have that free time to disseminate we can't do it the way we might want to okay wait yeah we have time for one last quick question I will make the two big questions and loud for the night [Applause]

01:35:51 we have no profit and academic major in the roundtable do you think we are seeing the birth of a new field a new interdisciplinary field called earth science or called science arts that is not much separated art and science just like biochemistry doesn't sit there it doesn't split by a chemist the biology and chemistry and is biochemist and astrophysics is astrophysics is not more astronomy nor physics do you think we are seeing the birth of this new field

01:36:23 in an environment like this the second question is do you think the Academy will grow will help to grow up this field because for instance in in our Academy in Brazil we have a master and PhD courses since 2004 called education for bioscience and health in which we have a line of research of science and art and we have tempies PhD thesis on

01:36:55 science and art but I don't know other academies around the world that that give this Liberty the freedom to to think out of the box like this like we are doing here so this questions before the night I just want to make a plug first off for pearl Prima's who was one of the first people to dance her PhD and yeah I think we need a new a new Academy that will begin to look at this today I

01:37:26 began to wonder what happened to Black Mountain College what happened to this kind of place where people want to work this way where people come together like this in scholarship to have these conversations and and it's not silos but I don't know how that would happen and where the money is for that kind of scholarship to occur okay well I think your questions are good ones to also revisit tomorrow so thank

01:37:57 you guys so much for this wonderful panel this concludes our day together two quick announcements tomorrow morning we're starting at 10:00 a.m. we'll open the doors at 9:30 number two you are all invited to an art exhibit opening tonight that sigh art center is hosting ten blocks from here the address is 208 73rd Street there's a flyer on the table out there art reception wine amazing science-based art please join us from 7:00 to 9:30

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